If you’ve ever felt like your value comes from being the one who fixes everything…

This episode might change how you see your role completely.

Because here’s the truth—especially for those of us in Continuous Improvement:

You don’t have to fix things to be valuable.

 

The Shift from Fixer to Coach

In this conversation, I sit down with Abby Kovarik to unpack something so many CI practitioners struggle with:

The pressure to:

• solve the problem

• have the answer

• prove your value by fixing things quickly

But what if that’s actually holding you—and your organization—back?

 

The Big Idea

Instead of being the one who puts the puzzle together…

Your role is to:
gather the pieces and create the conditions for others to solve it

That shift changes everything.

 

What You’ll Learn

• Why being the “fixer” can unintentionally create dependency

• How to shift from solving problems to building capability in others

• What it looks like to coach instead of rescue in real CI environments

• Why your value doesn’t decrease when you stop fixing—it actually grows

• How to help leaders recognize the impact of this kind of work (even when it’s hard to measure)

• The connection between coaching, credibility, and sustainable change

 

A More Sustainable Way to Lead Change

When you step out of fixer mode:

• your team becomes more capable

• ownership increases

• solutions actually stick

And maybe most importantly…

People get to:

• feel less overwhelmed

• do meaningful work

• go home with energy left for their lives outside of work

Because this work matters—but it’s not everything.

 

The Hard Truth

Let’s be real for a second.

Part of this shift is uncomfortable.

It means:

• letting go of being the hero

• trusting others to figure things out

• and yes… sometimes advocating for the value of your work in ways that feel a little cringey

But that’s part of the work too.

 

Key Reframe

You are not valuable because you fix things.

You are valuable because you help people think, learn, and solve problems better.

That’s what creates real, lasting impact in Continuous Improvement.

 

Try This

Think about a current challenge you’re working on.

Ask yourself:

• Am I solving this for them… or with them?

• Where might I be stepping in too quickly?

• What would it look like to create the conditions instead?

 

About Abby Kovarik

Abby brings a thoughtful, human-centered perspective to Continuous Improvement and change leadership. If this conversation resonated with you, I highly recommend connecting with her.

You can find Abby on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abby-kovarik-b81519202/

 

Final Thought

You don’t need to carry the whole puzzle.

You just need to help bring the pieces together.

 

Enjoying the Podcast?

If you’re working to move culture—not just install tools—hit subscribe and share this with another CI practitioner who needs to hear this.

Let’s build a stronger network of CI leaders who are doing this work differently.

 

Progress beats perfection.
Curiosity beats control.
And culture… beats everything.

 

00:00 Welcome to Thoughts On Change

00:34 Meet Abby Kovarik

02:36 Abby’s CI Origin Story

04:25 Lean Mindset Shift

06:22 Muda and TIMWOODS

10:49 Choosing a CI Career

12:40 Challenges as a Woman

17:26 Bringing the Human Element

20:37 Coaching Takeaways

23:12 From Doer to Culture Builder

26:12 Advice for CI Warriors

28:35 Connect and Wrap Up

 

Connect with Abby Kovarik:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/abby-kovarik-b81519202/

 

Video:

https://youtu.be/jrBTr9PXM0s

​

Transcript:

Kelly Mallery: Welcome to Thoughts On Change, the podcast about the messy political, emotional, deeply human side of leading change. I'm Kelly, and I believe anyone can implement lean tools until they actually have to get people to use them. Around here we talk about how to move culture, how to build credibility, and how to influence without.

bulldozing. Basically how to herd humans without losing your mind. Welcome back everybody to Thoughts On Change. This is a very special episode 'cause this is the first in our CI Warrior interview series and I'm really excited to have Abby Kovarik on today. Welcome, Abby.

Abby Kovarik: Good morning. Thank you for having me.

Kelly Mallery: Absolutely. Abby is a CI specialist at Raymond Corp.

So let's just start off with like Abby, tell us a little bit about what you. [00:01:00]

Abby Kovarik: Hi, thank you. So my name is Abby, like Kelly said. I work for Raymond, which is now basically just a brand of Toyota material handling, which is very interesting. Currently I'm in the business of strengthening and supporting people within the organization.

So I help to support teams to make work clearer. To extend their capabilities within the workplace and help them solve problems with confidence. So that's what I'm able to do on a day-to-day basis. I also train Toyota courses within the network and stuff like that. Human resource development piece is what I like to work with.

Kelly Mallery: That's amazing. And I love the way that you frame that, that you're just there to enable people.

Abby Kovarik: That's the way I like to look at it. Yes.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah, I think that's a good framing. I expect many of us out there who are in this kind of work, frame it that way, right? We're not, although the elevator pitch I give sometimes is, well, I help businesses be more efficient, [00:02:00] but realistically it's about lifting people up, making work clear, and I love that.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah, well if you think about it, how to strengthen a business is strengthening the people that work for that business.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah, absolutely.

Abby Kovarik: And I think that's just a core value that you should have, regardless of what you do within that business.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. Wonderful. And Abby, how long have you worked for Raymond?

Abby Kovarik: So I've been with Raymond for going on five years now. So I started in 2021 and it is now 2026. Time flies when you're having fun, I guess they like to say. Yeah, it's actually pretty interesting how I got into this role and this kind of industry in general. I had no idea of what I was getting into when I started.

Yeah. I came straight outta college. So continuous improvement. I mean, I didn't take any classes in college that taught me about this stuff.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. So how did you get into this? How did you get into lean and continuous improvement?

Abby Kovarik: So like I said, I came straight into [00:03:00] this out of college.

I was still a college student when I was learning about this because I was an intern at Raymond my senior year of college. I was just a curious student. I was studying information systems and management and leadership at Lemoine College, which is in Syracuse, New York. I found this internship at Raymond Corporation and I was basically just asked to engage in the day-to-day business and get to know people and see where I could help. Which was interesting because as somebody who had literally no experience in the real world, I was going in and they were.

Learn a little bit about the real world. That was what they said and I was like, okay, I can do that. So I was going in and I was trying to engage and help, and I had all this opportunity in front of me and I was asked to manage and help with processes. That was what was asked of me right at the beginning, and I was just so green.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. And so did you learn like the tools, [00:04:00] concepts, principles while you were at the internship or later when you became a full-time employee at Raymond?

Abby Kovarik: Yeah, so that was when it was first brought up to me. I was exposed in such a real raw way, observing the business on a day to day. But also being taught these methodologies and practices and ways of thinking that were completely different to what I was just taught in college.

Kelly Mallery: Hmm, interesting. What was so different?

Abby Kovarik: So one example that really sticks with me to this day is the way that it was introduced to me that inventory waste. The way inventory waste was in introduced to me just completely flips traditional management on the top of its head. And I, I thought about that for, I was like, wow, yeah, this is just sitting here and not making us any money and costing us money for being here.

And in general, you'd think of inventory as something that adds value to your organization. So that's just a funny way to think about it. And that was when I was like, wow, this is, this is interesting. [00:05:00] This is different.

Kelly Mallery: Right. Right. And so that's that idea that even if having additional inventory where traditional business is like, oh, that's great because then I don't run out.

But that is not good 'cause it's cash that's sitting there that you could be investing somewhere else. It's space that it's using up.

Abby Kovarik: Mm-hmm.

Kelly Mallery: Um, I love those. Like bulk buy, I'm saving money. It's like, well, I mean, kind of.

Abby Kovarik: I mean, yeah, there's this thing called expiration dates. But anyway, so yeah, I don't really wanna buy all that milk and keep that milk in our fridge.

But anyway, that's side of the story. So Muda in general, the idea of muda . Entering into this workspace that I was super fresh to. I saw it everywhere and nobody else was being taught that at that time. Raymond in general isn't extremely new with the idea of continuous improvement, but there still is some of that old culture that's rooted within our day to day. So it's, it's there. [00:06:00] And me being fresh, new college student, nobody knows who I am. I can see this stuff though, and I'm gonna tell you about it.

And I mean, maybe they didn't wanna hear about it, but, I told him anyway, and that's how I was introduced to the industry. I was introduced to the industry as that Curious George who was just asking everyone questions because that's what I was asked to do as an intern.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah.

That's awesome. I want, I have so many questions leading off of that, but I wanna go back to something because I'm going to not make the assumption that not all of our listeners necessarily know what muda is.

So Abby, can you give us a quick intro to what is muda? What is this concept?

Abby Kovarik: Yeah, so muda is anything that doesn't add value to your organization. That's the simplest way to define it. And something about muda is, well, what we like to do is we put an acronym to it. So we have, we call it Tim Wood.

There's those eight, or is it eight? No, that's seven, but there is eight wastes, but the only seven is called out in Tim Wood, but you could say Tim [00:07:00] Woods. For the last one there. Those are the eight forms of waste that you can find within an organization.

So. I can go through them if you would like me to

Kelly Mallery: please. Let's just do a quick, like what are each of them, because you never know. It's nice to hear a different perspective and different examples too from other

Abby Kovarik: No, that's, that's actually a really good point. I didn't think about that. So Tim Wood, T is for transportation waste.

That is anytime that you're going to be moving material or anything within the process more than you necessarily should be. I is inventory waste, which we were talking about earlier. Having too much more than what your customer is willing to pay for or willing to buy. It's just sitting on your shelf costing you money.

M is motion waste. So this we like to use in the ergonomic way, so it has to do with the motion of the operator or the motion of the value of that process being too much. So if the way that your workspace is set up makes you have to maneuver yourself like a crazy person, then that would be motion [00:08:00] waste.

So that's Tim. And then w is waiting. So anytime in your process when the amount of time that it takes earlier on in the process makes you have to wait for you to start your process or vice versa. Anytime that you have to sit idle or any material has to sit idle, that is called

waiting. So that is no good. That's not making us money anytime we're

Kelly Mallery: waiting. Yeah. It's like boring. I

Abby Kovarik: my

Kelly Mallery: goodness.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah. Love,

Kelly Mallery: Talking to people about, well, time is a waste. I'm like, I mean, it is if you're waiting for stuff or doing other things. Waiting is painful.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah.

Kelly Mallery: All right, carry on.

Abby Kovarik: Of course, of course. So there's two O's. So the first O is overprocessing. So anytime that you put too much work into a product or service than the customer is willing to pay for. So that might have to do with something was done incorrectly to begin with, so you had to rework it. That would be overprocessing or maybe you wrapped it too much, like you're sending out a project and you send it with way too [00:09:00] much

string wrap than is necessary. Then that would also be that overprocessing, because you spent way too much time on that. That wasn't necessary. And then we have overproduction, which is when again, there's just more than the customer is willing to pay for. And that one is more. Generally based, I would say. Because it talks about just overproduction in the general sense of absolutely everything that you could possibly produce. And that's also, it's people and processes and information, everything.

Kelly Mallery: Right.

Abby Kovarik: And then our D at the end is defects. So defects within your process are always going to be considered a waste, and we're always going to try to be rooting those out.

And then the last waste, which again is, this is another one that I don't know why we don't bring a lot of attention to this waste.

I find this one to be very important in our line of work specifically, I would say, because we work with people, so. Unused skills is the last form of waste.

And this form of [00:10:00] waste is something that can happen in a system when people aren't paying attention.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah.

Abby Kovarik: So unused skills is when there's individuals that are not being used to their fullest capacity within the organization. And that is a waste for the organization

Kelly Mallery: Yeah.

To

Abby Kovarik: under utilize their

Kelly Mallery: people and for those people.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah. And for those people. Correct.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. And I agree that's a waste. It's like the unsung, you're not hero 'cause it's not a good thing, but it's the unsung waste that needs to be brought up more frequently. Because it. It drives engagement, right?

People who aren't fully utilized or feel like they're valued, don't wanna work, don't wanna come and fully develop themselves and put themselves into the work. So that's why people leave.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah, exactly.

Kelly Mallery: Awesome. Thanks Abby, for taking us through that. So back to your story and your history.

Yeah. So you went to this internship, learned all about muda, and was thrown into the deep end it sounds like from a like process and [00:11:00] manufacturing perspective. So take us through, how did you decide to transition into a CI role and what was that like starting out in that role?

Abby Kovarik: So I knew immediately when I was introduced to these topics and this way of doing business that there was going to be no going back for me like this.

Seemed like the clear, best way, best practice. Why would I do anything different kind of thing. So I wanted to find a way to strengthen that within the organization. And so I knew that the role that I needed to play was continuous improvement CI.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah,

Abby Kovarik: I just knew it was kind of like, I didn't really make the decision.

It was just, it happened and it flowed naturally for me to play that role within the organization based upon the experiences that I had early on.

It's, it's lucky. It's like I was still a college student. I was going to these college classes and I was like, I know what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Kelly Mallery: Wow.

Abby Kovarik: [00:12:00] And everyone's like, okay. And I was like, no, truly. And it's exciting and you should wanna do it too. And that's, that was just, everyone was like, Abby is this Toyota freak? That's what everyone thought. I guarantee it.

Kelly Mallery: That's so funny. And I think, you know, this is not the first time I've met somebody or like, personally, I'm like that too, where you learn about this and it just makes so much sense that you can't see any other way.

And I imagine we drive other people crazy all the time.

Abby Kovarik: I know that's, that's the part where it's, we can create our own challenges sometimes.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. So let's talk about challenges. So you're a young woman in, let's face it, a male dominated industry.

Abby Kovarik: Mm-hmm.

Kelly Mallery: Coming into this role, which I'll be honest, not everybody loves CI people.

I think we've kind of just painted that picture.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah.

Kelly Mallery: So what was it like coming into the org [00:13:00] and what were the challenges that you faced over the last five years as a CI practitioner, and person in the organization, but then as a woman in that role, in this male dominated organization?

Abby Kovarik: Talk about a loaded question.

Kelly Mallery: I know. I'm sorry.

Abby Kovarik: No, I, no, it's real. It's exactly what the people want to hear, right? Like you said, it is a male dominated field. You know, there's some women within the organization and we're strengthening that piece. I actually have a network within Raymond that it's the women's networking group. Women are a part of it and we all send each other stuff and we engage with each other. We try to strengthen each other's networks, and it's important to remember that we truly are a minority within this organization and we have to work to strengthen that and

show ourselves as valuable as we are. Right. So the challenges that I experienced, I guess early on were different, obviously as I learned throughout the five years. So [00:14:00] the early on challenges had everything to do with how I controlled my emotions, I would say like how I carried myself in these rooms because I was being challenged on a day-to-day basis against people that maybe I didn't necessarily feel comfortable being challenged against that early in my career, um, very young woman working in this industry was not necessarily easy for me to keep my cool. Yeah. But I was, I'm very strong woman, so I always kept my story. I never changed my mind, which is why I'm still here today.

And I'm proud of myself for that because I guess I could have hopped off the wagon a long time ago. Mm-hmm. And I never did. But it's because of those people that have challenged me in the past is why I'm as strong as I am today and why I am able to communicate the way that I am today. And I'm able to control my emotions the way that I am today because I've learned throughout the years by being challenged [00:15:00] by these resistors.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. That's such an excellent point because. Being in CI we are naturally kind of challenging status quo, pushing people out of their comfort zone, which means people are gonna lash out. That's a natural response when you're challenging their cherished beliefs and the systems that they've been working in and living in for a long time.

And so as a new, just not, not only a new person. But a woman with all these men around you, like kudos to you for standing your ground. Because I know, like in my experience, I've definitely had moments of rolling over and then after I've been like, Ugh. Why did I do that? But there's so much pressure. So that's incredible that you've been able to hold that.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah. And you obviously pick your battles, right? There's some times where you don't actually give in, but you have to walk away or something like that. Otherwise, it might not be the best look for [00:16:00] you. But yeah, early on I really struggled with being like, how do you guys not understand that this is the right way of doing it? That was like, how is it, how, how, how am I having this fight? But I didn't see the human piece to it. The, I am taking away the way that they feel comfortable within their day to day. I didn't see that piece so early on. I was so intense. I was so intense.

I would love to see this young version of myself and just be like, calm down. You scare everyone.

Yeah.

Kelly Mallery: I love this image.

Abby Kovarik: What do you love about the image Kelly?

Kelly Mallery: I love the image. Well, I love the image because there's a lot of negative bias and thought around women have to be submissive. And we play into that and I know I've played into that in the past.

But I love seeing the opposite be true as well. And I think this just goes to show, hey, everybody. [00:17:00] Women have both sides. Mm-hmm. And we can be both sides. And honestly, I also love thinking about this because I've known you now for a little bit and

Abby Kovarik: yeah.

Kelly Mallery: It's such a funny image compared to the Abby that I know right now.

Abby Kovarik: I know you. Yeah. You didn't know this Abby. There's still people that I work with within the industry that know, that knew this Abey and they've seen me grow, and I'm just, I'm blessed to have that still because I think that that's really special.

Kelly Mallery: What helped you like realize that you were a bit intense and that there was this human element to change that you weren't seeing, like what happened for you?

Abby Kovarik: So for me it was my inability to translate my passion in a professional way. I needed to find a way to relate to these individual's passion as well, and [00:18:00] drive that human connection towards greater good.

Kelly Mallery: Mm-hmm.

Abby Kovarik: Like we were saying this is a male dominated field and males don't necessarily have the strongest ability to show and harness emotion and care without it feeling toxic in a way, I would say. Mm-hmm. Then, then you get the toxic masculinity kind of mantra going.

Kelly Mallery: Mm-hmm.

Abby Kovarik: So it was new for the environment that I was entering into bring such raw emotion.

Kelly Mallery: Gotcha.

Abby Kovarik: But I don't think that that was a bad thing for the environment.

It was just new.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah.

Abby Kovarik: And. I think my emotional depth is what allowed me to care and what continues to allow me to be my authentic self.

Kelly Mallery: Mm-hmm.

Abby Kovarik: And care as deeply as I do. And this alone is bringing that human element into this warehouse environment that hasn't had that.

And I think once that passion was [00:19:00] accepted more by the environment, it was easier for me to continue on with my work. It just was kind of like a blend, I would say. Mm-hmm. Of compromise. Seeing that like my outputs weren't hitting correctly. So I kind of just had to reroute them a little bit, but realize that the core of my emotional depth and my care, it needs to still be there or else.

Kelly Mallery: You're not you.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah. I'm not me, so, yeah.

Kelly Mallery: That's wonderful. Just shout out to women in CI roles because I think it is our capacity for deep caring and that emotional depth, as you said, that makes us really excellent CI practitioners. And then it's just a matter of, to your point, how do we communicate that effectively because we are very good generally, this [00:20:00] is a generalization I understand that. Women are pretty damn good at caring and recognizing the humanity in others and making that bridge and link with people through empathy. And that is so important when we are asking people to change.

And that is scary stuff. Mm-hmm. So women I think are some of the best. I've met some men that are very good too.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah. So have I. So have I.

Kelly Mallery: But we just have that natural ability and so I would love to see this is why more women, more women in CI.

Abby Kovarik: Same. More women in CI.

Kelly Mallery: More women. So Abby, I love that we're talking about this like emotional and human side of being a change leader and how important the human element and the emotional element is to change and this practice.

And I wanna turn us to, I know you and I had, we've worked together for a few months and I enjoyed it.

Abby Kovarik: So did I.

Kelly Mallery: It was great. Abby and I [00:21:00] did some coaching together. And Abby, I'd love if you would just share, working with me through that, what was the most impactful and important thing that you learned and how is that, changing how you're, kicking butt in this role.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah, so Kelly and I spent, what was it? We started in September. I think, yeah, we started in September. We spent 12 weeks together of coaching. And Kelly created a routine for me. Really. She created a safe space for me to reflect on, on my own personal outputs, which is was new.

No one has ever, no one had ever given me that lens before, which Kelly was able to do and I was able to slow down, which I was never doing before. So Kelly definitely helped me do that. So Kelly helped me slow down. She helped me see my thought patterns more [00:22:00] clearly. And she helped me identify reoccurring loops in the way that I behaved and the way that I worked.

These reoccurring loops were in control and they were in how I expressed my emotions, how I showed up for others, and the way that that control kind of hindered their ability to grow. So I just have a brand new sense of how to be intentional in my day to day. Because of what I learned from you, Kelly.

Truly.

Kelly Mallery: That's amazing. And Abby, I loved every moment working with you. You're, you are an inspiring woman in this industry. Thank you. And so this is why I wanted you to be on here, because I think more women need to see people like you standing up, holding your ground, and yes, we all have rough edges that we have to smooth and work on over time.

Mm-hmm. We never stop growing in this kind of role or in life. And so I'm just, I'm so grateful to have gotten the chance to know [00:23:00] you and work with you, and to see the amazing stuff you're still doing. So tell me what's, what's going on with you now? How are things going? Like, is that what's changed?

What hasn't? Yeah, what's next?

Abby Kovarik: So now after changing, my approach and the way that I do continuous improvement work within the Raymond Corporation instead of being the doer,

because that's, everyone loves, for us to be the doers. It's, it's so much mm-hmm. So much easier for everyone else when we're the doers, but it actually doesn't change the culture at all when we're the doers. So the change is now within the culture, or at least that's where my team is looking for the change.

So, as you know, the goal of continuous improvement is to change the way that the whole organization views lean management in general. Mm-hmm. It, it's not supposed to be seen as like this extra thing. It's supposed to be seen as how we do business. So I think that that's currently the [00:24:00] change that I'm experiencing in the way that I work every day, because I don't want them to see it as extra anymore.

I want them to pick it as a way to just do, it's just a way that they do. I don't want them to have to second guess it at all. And so I have to make it palatable

Kelly Mallery: Yeah.

Abby Kovarik: To do that.

Kelly Mallery: And that means not doing it ourselves because they gotta learn.

Abby Kovarik: So yeah, there's definitely. This push right now to get leadership's full engagement so that it is fully supported.

And my coaching is more accepted within the organization. That is definitely the newest pull. And I think that there's a lot of tension sometimes I think that people in our roles can feel between leadership and the work that we do sometimes. Mm-hmm.

Because we want leadership to support this cause, right?

Kelly Mallery: Mm-hmm.

Abby Kovarik: [00:25:00] But leadership thinks that supporting the cause is just letting you do what you do, but that's not necessarily the case. Mm-hmm.

Kelly Mallery: Mm-hmm. Changing the way people lead even is required.

Abby Kovarik: Exactly. It is. And

Kelly Mallery: that comes yeah, right back to, Hey, we're asking people to do something different.

Abby Kovarik: Mm-hmm. So yeah, we're, we're managing up now we're trying to coach lean in the way that they manage.

Kelly Mallery: Mm-hmm.

Abby Kovarik: Instead of just the way that we do business. It's gotta be through and through. And like I said earlier on, like my organization is a subsidiary of Toyota Material Handling, which definitely helps with the culture, but that doesn't mean that we're the golden culture either.

Kelly Mallery: And I imagine even Toyota has their struggles, right?

Abby Kovarik: Oh yeah, definitely. Yep.

Kelly Mallery: It's a constant battle, a constant evolving and working system.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah. Everyone brings their own mental models to the game. Mm-hmm.

And [00:26:00] it's our job to create that central story and value and mission that everyone wants to show up for every day.

Kelly Mallery: Oh yeah. Uh, amazing. Well, Abby, I think to close us out. What advice would you give either a younger you or just other mm-hmm. Fellow women CI warriors out there? Yeah, like if you could tell them anything, what would it be?

Abby Kovarik: I would say you don't need to fix things to be valuable.

Kelly Mallery: That's deep.

Abby Kovarik: Yes, it's deep because we think that we need to be the fixers. I still consider myself a fixer, because I'm just I'm gathering the puzzle now. I'm not putting the puzzle together, I'm just actually getting the puzzle all in the same space.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. And creating the conditions for them to put the puzzle together themselves.

Abby Kovarik: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So I'm still extremely needed and necessary and valuable within the [00:27:00] organization, even if I'm not putting the puzzle together. Yeah. And it's our job to get leadership to see that value, I guess, but mm-hmm. I hate that part, but whatever

Kelly Mallery: it always does

Abby Kovarik: to be real. I hate that part, but whatever.

Kelly Mallery: It's hard. That's the hard. There's always some hard part that's like, Ugh, ugh. A little cringey.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah.

Kelly Mallery: But we do it anyway.

Abby Kovarik: We do it anyway. And if you show up every day and you put your best foot forward and you lead with your heart, right?

Mm-hmm. Because we're not doing this for any further agenda. Like I don't have, like there's no other reason for me to be doing this outside of just the fact that I want your work to feel easier for you. I want you to be able to go home every day to your family and to your hobbies outside of what you do here at work.

Even though you're extremely valuable here, this is not your whole life.

Kelly Mallery: Mm-hmm.

Abby Kovarik: And we just wanna make sure to [00:28:00] do this the best way possible.

Kelly Mallery: Beautifully said. What a way to end this episode. I'm so grateful. Abby, thank you so much for coming on to Thoughts on Change and having this really wonderful conversation with me.

Abby Kovarik: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to see how this podcast grows and see all the fun things that you and me goals that No, I know. I know. It's, it's very cool that you're doing this.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah. Thank you. It's all an experiment. That's what I keep telling myself. Everything's an experiment.

Abby Kovarik: Yeah.

Kelly Mallery: So, Abby, if listeners want to connect with you, what's the best way?

Abby Kovarik: So you'll link my LinkedIn?

Kelly Mallery: I will, yes. I'll put everything in the, in the show notes.

Abby Kovarik: Okay, cool. So my LinkedIn account, if you wanted to reach out to me on LinkedIn, that would be a great way for us to connect. I would love to communicate with absolutely anyone with this kind of stuff.

So please reach out.

Kelly Mallery: Yeah, let's build a bigger, broader network of [00:29:00] CI warriors out there. Mm-hmm. So, connect with Abby, if you're enjoying listening to this, follow Thoughts on Change and myself, Kelly Mallery on LinkedIn, on Instagram, YouTube, all the normal channels and you can get this wherever you listen to podcasts.

So thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Bye.

That's a wrap for this episode of Thoughts on Change. If you're also out there trying to move culture instead of just installing tools, hit subscribe and share this with a fellow CI warrior. And remember, progress beats perfection, curiosity beats control, and culture beats everything. See you next time.